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F19_CoNa

Direct drive wheel comparison review

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Another great video from Barry.

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Doesn´t make me want an OSW one bit less frown

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Great review.

BTW saw a thread about this review on the iRacing forums, apparently there is somewhat of a controversy about the OSW wheel in this review using a high end $1500 motor and not the more common $500 motors that most OSW wheels use, also the Accuforce folks say that Barry didn't have the profile settings setup correctly which is why the FFB was not up to par with the other two, there is some talk pushing for a followup review with someone providing Barry with a more typical OSW wheel with the more common motor and the Accuforce folks providing him with a good profile to use.

That would be cool to see as well.

Personally I just upgraded wheels recently and am so happy with the improvements going from my old wheel to my current one that I'm not in the market for a DD wheel anytime soon, but it's cool to see how far wheel technology is going and that there's a DYI option if I ever want to go that route, I just couldn't justify the cost for a wheel like that to put on my desk, only if I ever went to a dedicated simrig.

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I don´t understand the complaints about the accuforce being set up wrong. If they spend 5x more time trying to get it work right and the other wheels do more right with less need of compensation for the accuforce wheels wrong doing that itself says something about the performance of each wheel.

But I guess some maximisers have gotten the accuforce and they start to smell they didn´t buy the greatest. It sucks my HE Sim Ultimate was obsolete within a month of purchase with nice new shiny paint and other smaller fixes. It´s just how it goes engineers will improve the designs and deliver something better then what you just got wink.

Good to know the OSW had such a motor. Would be interesting to see how close a 500$ servo motor would be to it. My goal with an OSW would be to at least not spend more money then importing an accuforce. With a 1500$ servo motor I doubt that would be hard to achieve.

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There's a LOT of misinformation out there. Both for and against the AF. Based on what I've read throughout the ISRTV, iRacing, and SimXperience forums, you can paint a pretty broad picture. Below is my interpretation.

Berney and other AF and non-AF users alike, believe that Barrie screwed up his wheel from the tear down for the initial review. It's had issues from the beginning, with flex, etc. While Berney from SimX takes responsibility for the potential difficulty in setting up the AF SimCommander software, which looks to have led to drastic misconfiguration, there's still the fact that if the wheel isn't physically right, then it's not going to review right. If it wasn't configured right, then it's not going to review right. None of those reviewers, or Barrie, contacted Berney or any of the other active educated AF members in the community to help with the configuration issues they were having, and many users have already sent in their own profiles and videos of their AF doing exactly what Barrie said his wasn't/couldn't do. Again, he screwed his wheel up and missed on the configuration. That shouldn't be counted against the AF. Barrie needs to get the wheel fixed, fix the configuration issues, and redo the test properly, and include something other than iRacing.

The reality is, during beta testing the AF wheel had "too much feel", even with it detuned to be more realistic, according to the REAL racers that were apart of early beta testing. What most of those reviewers "think" a wheel should feel like is patently wrong based on feed back from the guys testing it who race the real life counterparts for a living.

Berney has asked Barrie to send in his wheel to have it looked at so they can fix whatever he screwed up to start with. In the mean time, Berney is working with a bunch of us in the AF forums to create a set of more unrealistic profiles that give more "feedback" for those users that want it. Per Berney, they are also only utilizing a portion of the AF motor's capabilities and have another 30% more power they can bump to the motor to add more feel. Again, not necessary to maintain realism, but is going to be necessary to combat what many wrongly believe to be necessary/realistic.

There's a list a mile long that could be made if you go through and list all the reasons why the AF was dealt a bad hand. The amazing thing is, even with all of the problems Barrie's wheel and misconfiguration had, it still did pretty well.

-only iRacing was used

-strength of the AF is in it's SimCommander software to give FFB configuration for games that don't have the level of FFB configuration that iRacing provides. I remember the reviewers talking about having software for the OSW to configure things, but not the Bodnar, so I'm not sure how accurate this is

-Barrie and the other reviewers misconfigured the wheel and caused clipping which took affects away in an effort to add unrealistic "feedback" because they've learned improperly what FFB is/should be

-wheel was "damaged" already, therefore the review really shouldn't be looked at

-OSW wheel, while nice, was not comparable to the AF in terms of motor size. As many have mentioned, should have used the smaller motor that most use

-cost

-AF includes button box, quick release and integrated (not a loose external cable) connection for other wheel devices

...

You can go on with the list. They're all valid points that should be addressed and re-reviewed. On the same level, knowing what was missed with the AF, what was missed with the OSW and Bodnar????

That said, I was ok with the review. I don't expect an $1800 wheel to beat a $3000 or $5000 wheel. If you pay more for the Bodnar or OSW, then you should see some type of improvement over the AF. Bottom line, ANY DirectDrive wheel is miles ahead of anything belt/gear driven on the market.

If anything this review helps to strengthen the market and what we'll see in the near future. For the AF owners, the flexibility of the software and the improvements that are coming from this review will allow us to benefit from Berney's passion to create a better experience for his customer.

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More comparison here. http://members.iracing.com/jforum/posts/list/825/3316105.page#9032447

If you don´t have iRacing

TL;DR: The ranking order in Barry's review is correct!

Today, Naid, who was one of the reviewers in Barry's review, let me have a go at his 20Nm OSW Lenze wheel. I also brought my AF with me...tools, cables, setups, profiles, and even my racing gloves. That's right, no excuses.

First, and I think this is important.

Naid's Lenze OSW, as tested is a ~$4000 package.

AF Pro, as tested is a $1800 package.

Right off the bat, I'll answer the big questions:

1. Was Barry's review correct, and did the AF indeed fall last in the comparison against an OSW and Bodnar?

2. Was the AF misrepresented and tuned improperly?

The answers to both of those questions based on my personal experience is YES!

I am confident, that if I were one of the reviewers there that day, I too would have probably put those wheels in that order, and while I did not try the Bodnar, I can tell you that the AF would have come last. Naid confirmed for me that the differences between the OSW and Bodnar were marginal. He actually had the Bodnar and showed it to me, just no cables for it, so I wasn't able to try it today. Considering the wide array of hardware he had and the ridiculous D-box motion simulator, and that he knew everything inside and out, and because he is also a very highly qualified technologist, I took his word for it. The difference between the OSW Lenze and AF however, was *NOT* marginal. It was very noticeable for sure.

I was able to provide a tune for the AF which Naid drove with. His feedback confirmed to me that what he experienced at Barry's was most probably clipping and over saturation of certain effects, which made the wheel feel dull in certain scenarios. With my tune, no detail was lost according to his feedback. However, that wasn't enough.

Now, let's explain this seemingly shocking confirmation in more detail for current and potential AF/OSW/Bodnar owners.

The reason why the AF falls short in this comparison is because it simply doesn't have enough power. Period. That's all. It's the only reason, and it turned out to be a pretty big reason.

Does that make it a bad wheel? Certainly not. That's like saying the CSW or the G25 are terrible wheels because they don't generate enough torque.

The AF tuned properly is capable of delivering detail and information in any scenario in the game, as long as there is enough available torque bandwidth. Even tuned properly, and even with the new responsive mode, the AF did not even come close to the torque output of the Lenze, which was 15-20Nm, depending on how its configured.

Why was torque the deciding factor?

Because when you jump a curb at 150mph in the Lotus 79, your Jimmies are so rustled, you swear you were there. That in itself is what distinguished the AF from all other wheels and put it in a league of its own. Also, because you get a much more dynamic range in the types of forces you experience on the track. If you want a proper "experience" driving the DW12 at Long Beach, the AF cannot deliver it as well as the Lenze. That extra headroom in torque is actually quite extra. Is that true for all cars and series? Absolutely not. The AF covers the majority of the cases perfectly fine. However, it won't disorient you if you misjudge and hop a tall curb... or deliver a noticeable level of feedback if you hit a curb while under full tire load. With the higher torque, curbs become a thing you have to respect. That in itself puts a bit of fear into you and drives the immersion up.

Let me illustrate on a relative scale where the wheels fall into in terms of being able to feel the torque:

G25 --> CSW --> CSWv2 -------------> AF ------------>(Bodnar?) --> Lenze

Most cars don't generate that much torque, so why is the extra torque needed?

While all of these wheels operate well below their range 70-80% of the time (confirmed with telemetry many times many posts ago), when you get into those situations in certain cars where the forces get on the higher end, with extra torque, and we're talking additional 10Nm of torque here, give you a much more immersive picture of what the car is doing under load and what the corner actually feels like at speed as if you were experiencing g-forces.

What about the AF tuning capabilities and its new responsive mode?

Even with all of the tuning in the world, and the increased responsive mode, the AF wasn't able to match the torque of the Lenze. Especially when hopping over curbs and all of that. Also, despite the AF giving much detail, it didn't deliver some of the nuances present in torque differences toward the higher end of its power (it was tuned properly, trust me! The only person who can tune the wheel more correctly is Berney himself, and only because he can change the source code. ) Kind of like when there is a camber change, or the wheels alter their grip under load. Not that it doesn't deliver, just that with higher torque, those nuances are more pronounces as there is more torque to differentiate.

However, the AF's tuning capabilities are unmatched by any wheel. Within its available torque, the tuning capabilities allow you to completely alter its behavior and really dial out most things you don't like. Ok, you can't dial in more torque, we went over this, but you can tweak everything from noise, smoothness, inertia, dynamic oscillations, to additional effects from game physics, or even override a game's FFB completely! You can even mess with the torque equalization!!! The list of tuning capabilities is crazy and impressive.

What the new responsive mode did was just intensified the overall delivery of what the AF can deliver. What it doesn't do is add more torque.

Oscillations ARE an issue with the high torque wheels. Are they a deal braker? No.... or at least if you don't drive with one hand on top of the wheel with your chair reclined and drive real slow blasting hip hop music. There are things in these wheels you may not like that you may not be able to tune out period, whereas with the AF you can.

For example. You cannot modify the clarity or chattiness of the higher end torque wheels. With the AF, you can really change how certain forces and effects are delivered. With the Lenze specifically, the small detailed forces were rather muted, however still present and detailed, but smoother.

Imagine that the FFB delivered looked like a sinewave. Imagine that with the AF, you can modify the frequency, how close the peaks are together, and how sharp or dull they can be. What you can't modify in the AF is how tall they are, and that's torque.

More torque yields less detail though, right?

No. That's #%&*$#, and don't let anyone convince you otherwise with "science". What is proven in theory, and which may be true if you paid enough attention in math class to verify it, is actually not felt in reality. The Lenze, which I tested at 19 Amps, did not suffer from ANY detail loss. Going over the high frequency curbs at Zolder produce crystal clear feedback. Nor did it suffer from being able to feel nuances of forces which slowly ramp up as you drive over big humped curbs at 2mph.

But the AF features a 2000Hz super duper encoder/decoder, and the others don't, so why do they produce detail that is just as good as the AF's detail?

I guess maybe you don't need big numbers to feel small bumps. I don't know. All I know is that the only difference between the ability in being able to feel detail is that with the AF you can tune that feel, and with the other wheels you can't.

Whoah, whoah, whoah. If the AccuForce's tuning capabilities are so dope, why isn't that enough to make it a better wheel?

Depends on what you understand from better. I had a more enjoyable and immersive experience with the higher torque wheel. In addition to that, we didn't spend any significant time fine tuning the feedback from the other wheels. It just worked. Out of the box. Like magic. With the AF, I had to get my degree in engineering first, figure out what all the options do, and start messing around until I dialed out a bunch of stuff I didn't like.

As far as a user's experience is concerned, the fact that the Lenze just worked, delivered detail and offered much higher torque variation and as a result more immersive experience, made it a more enjoyable wheel than the AF.

The AF's tuning capabilities did not increase the immersion factor of the simulation, but the added torque of the Lenze certainly did. Torque FTW!

I'm not satisfied with your analysis on detail, please explain further...

The AF is capable of delivering very chatty and high frequency details. With the Lenze, the details were much smoother and more muted. They were definitely not as jolting as in the AF. The kind of detail we're talking about is, being able to feel road seams, road texture, small bumps, and the ruble strips over curbs. The ability of the AF to relate that information and in a way where in the way they're being related can actually be customized, is simply not possible with the Lenze. However, that doesn't mean that those details weren't felt or didn't come through in the Lenze. Yes, that's a huge advantage for the AF, but at the end of the day, the other wheel showed that if you didn't have the advantage of being able to tune that detail, everything was still fine.

The AF is also not as smooth as the Lenze. By smoothness I mean the subtlety of the way the small forces are delivered. The AF can be of course tutned to smooth out bumps and whatnot, but because of its limited torque range, even a little bit of smoothing soon starts to eliminate detail.

So if you want the detail in AF, you can't have it as smooth as you would get it in the Lenze. That's all. Doesn't mean you can't have smooth detail in the AF, but it's just the nature of how different those wheels are.

However, the fact that you CAN customize the detail of the AF, and be able to add so much more other effects, like bumps, engine RPM, make it immersive in its own way even though it can't deliver that high torque.

Sooo, the AF is rated at 13Nm, and the Bodnar at 16Nm, and you said that Naid said that the Bodnar feels more like the Lenze which is 20Nm?

...uhh, yeah. In fact, different motors may be rated the same torque and feel completely different, apparently. So I'll make it simple. Don't go by the numbers, but go by what you feel.

What about safety?

With the AF you can probably hurt yourself a little.

With a wheel like an OSW, especially since it doesn't have any controls around oscillation, you can SERIOUSLY INJURE YOURSELF! Seriously, and that's not a joke. Just like in a race car, and another point for immersion, check! <-- that was a joke.

Should I sell my AF and trade it for an OSW or a Bodnar?

Whoa, whoa, slow down there champ and let's revisit:

AF is an $1800 package, while the other two are $4-5K delivered.

Do the other wheels offer twice the performance for more than twice the price?

I don't know if its twice the performance, but definitely more than one and half times the torque for sure. Torque, it turns out, makes a significant difference to the amount of immersion you get from the wheel. Just because you can tune and refine the hell out of the FFB in AccuForce, the added torque is significant enough to give a player a much more exciting and immersive experience.

So in reality, if torque really is such a deciding factor for performance, then the AF delivers the great performance for its price with the added bonus of being able to tune it like no other wheel before. The other wheels deliver more torque, but for a significant price increase. So all wheels are good value, you just have to decide which is the right one for you.

So are there really any losers in this? Absolutely not.

Should you feel disappointed you got an AF instead of an OSW or Bodnar?

I don't know, do you normally feel disappointed you didn't have to pay an extra $2-3,000?

Do you #%&*$# about owning a $200K Lamborghini instead of a $500K Ferrari? Poor you.

I'm not, and mostly because I can't afford an OSW or a Bodnar, or a $15,000 motion simulation package form D-Box that makes my balls pack up and go inside of me when I crest the hill at the Skyline corner at Bathurst in a Lotus 79. ...and even if I could, my wife won't let me, because believe me, she's had it with my car #%&*$#. We all have one reason or another that limits our wants and forces us to instead satisfy our needs.

The AF is enough. The others just give you MOAR, and you need to pay for it.

But I could build an OSW for the price of an AF because shipping an AF to my country is assrape

Unless you value tuning capability more than torque, then your choice is clear... and I'm jealous. As Naid said, it's not like Berney is running a charity here. He has a business to run, salaries to pay, and invested years of his life to bring something to market for those of us who can't afford a Bodnar and have a great experience. Is he wrong to charge you a premium... you selfish #%&*$# who only throws stones at him every chance you get? Have some respect for the community and capitalism. Unlike communism, It #%&*$# works!

Are the OSW and Bodnar in a different league than the AF?

Yes. The torque difference alone puts them in different leagues. So maybe, perhaps, this wasn't a fair comparison? Then in that case the AF is in a market segment all on its own. Unrivaled!

What is the ideal wheel then?

A 25Nm AccuForce with SimCommander which is FREE. Berney, it's time to make a wheel with a stronger motor. Do it!

...but, ...but

The great thing about all of this, as Naid pointed out to me, if Bodnar didn't come to market, we wouldn't have had such a significant change in the landscape of SimWheel controllers so quickly. All of this is great stuff. We are living in the Golden Age of Sim Hardware. Rejoice, don't hate and insult each other, hug all the children you see on the street (they might be yours for all you know), and enjoy this revolution in SimRacing hardware!

_________________

Another input from Naid Naydenov who owns the Lenze and was one of the three in the barry test

---

Well this was a fun afternoon. Bedo, thanks for bringing your complete AF setup! It was nice to once again tinker with some cool technology.

I wanted to share some thoughts on the AF testing, as it was a very different experience from what we did at Barry's during round 1. Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with either method, but it goes to show that the software tuning on the AF can make a huge difference in feel, and that there is no substitute for torque.

At Barry's, we took the recommended approach: started with a default profile, did some laps, auto-tuned, and tweaked things from there based on my preference (subjective). The end result was a very smooth wheel with defined but somewhat weak details. Yes, I could feel curbs, grass, and road surface variations when driving in a straight line, but they were being overpowered mid-corner by the spring effect, and that did not feel how a real car feels.

Then Bedo comes over and while we play with the Lenze, he mentions that the AF is lot harsher (chatty). I was like, REALLY? Since my observation was completely opposite.

Then we swap over to the AF, and he does his tuning magic. I asked him to configure it exactly how he likes to use it at home. So, a lot of effects are then disabled in Sim Commander. We start with a very basic and very raw profile, far from the defaults. Then we tweak from there until it feels "right". The result? Well defined effects that don't get overpowered mid-corner. But also VERY HARSH. There is constant chatter in the wheel and this sandy feeling. And I thought the Lenze was chatty?! This is like that, but times 10. The Lenze actually feels super smooth compared to the AF when tuned this way.

So which AF setup was better? If I had an AF and no other wheel choices, I would tune it somewhat towards the smooth side, because I don't like harshness. The constant knocking in the wheel can get on my nerves. The AF with its very raw setup is a good example of that. The Lenze also does it, but to a much lesser extent. I could not feel it in the Kollmorgen, so that may be the ticket, just need to figure out if the Kollmorgen sacrifices detail in order to achieve that. If it does, then this would be equivalent to damping, in which case the Lenze would make more sense, since you can always add damping or smoothing in the software.

Another thing was very apparent too. Regardless of the wheel settings (smooth vs raw), there is a huge difference in torque between the AF and the Lenze. The numbers are irrelevant, 13Nm vs 20Nm doesn't even begin to describe it. The Lenze feels literally 3-4 times more powerful. That's while running 19A in the Argon. And the experts can correct me, but I don't think it's pushing 20Nm at 19A. Maybe closer to 18Nm. I can only imagine what a handful it will be at 29Nm when properly powered. All this extra torque makes the whole experience a lot more alive. The small details are there, in a straight line, in a slow corner, fast corner, low forces, high forces, doesn't matter. I can be turning a corner at 150mph with the forces cranked up to the max, hanging on for dear life, and still be able to feel any small bump, or precisely when the tires are starting to lose grip.

And finally, preference can be very subjective. Low forces vs high forces, smooth vs harsh, people will like different things. Seeing how Bedo likes definition and harshness, I offered him to try the Lenze in its raw form: no effect filters, no damping anywhere, no setpoint smoothing in Granity. And he loved it. Apart from the crazy oscillations in the pits. I prefer a more toned down experience: overall effect filter at 5, 20-40% damping with 10% saturation, and setpoint smoothing, although lately I've been driving without CIS and it is starting to feel good. Maybe it's time to bring a Kollmorgen back into the picture

Point of the story, what a fun way to spend half a day! At the end, it doesn't matter which wheel is better. What matters is that we have plenty of choices, and that we can have a good time with this hobby of ours.

So let's do this again. Maybe someone in the area has a Mige? Speak up and we'll make sure to invite ourselves to your house.

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Thanks Oqvist! I think more information like this is what Barry should have included, but probably just didn't have the time to do. I think the only thing left is for Berney to update SC4 auto tune based on the changes that iRacing made that ruined the profiles. It sounds like you're participating in the testing so I assume you already have some of that, but choose to configure the wheel yourself anyways.

I'm in the same boat as you with the wife and sim racing LOL. There's only so much I can do and afford so I have to take what I can get. I have no regrets about my AF purchase and I don't think 90% of the people out there would. The cost of the OSW and Bodnar wheels put them on another level for both cost and performance. And I think it's only fair that they perform as well as they do.

I appreciate the time you spent with Laid to give a more detailed review of the things that the community knee-jerk reacted to. My post above was simply letting those know here that there was a lot more thorough testing to be done, and I think you're post goes a long way in doing that.

-------------------------------------

Questions for you...

I'm getting confused by all the different OSW terminology. I hear Lenz, Kolmorgan, and others. I'm assuming that's the motor/server that's being used in the OSW config? In otherwords, are they all OSW's, just different servo's?

I'm think I can buy "pieces-at-a-time" and build my own OSW, which I'd like to do, but it starts to feel like and Android phone with how "fractured" the community and information is that surround it. There's even information at iRacing about a Iona(???) "version" of the OSW.??

Any chance you could help explain more about OSW, terminology, and best resources to start researching parts and ordering?

I can't spend $3000-4000 at one time, but I might be able to spread it out over a 6-8 months. =) HAHA

Thanks again Oqvist!

Chris

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Maybe it wasn´t clear it´s a copy and paste from the iRacing forum from a guy Bedo and Naid who owned the Lenze.

Here is more copy and paste for non iRacing members from Bedo.

I would say this. Within the torque range of the AF, the AF can outperform any other wheel. I say "outperform" only due to the fact that you can tune how the AF relates those forces, because on the same scale up to 13Nm all motors should be able to reproduce that torque. You can adjust the volume and intensity and the smoothness, as well as add/subtract any effects and even override what the game is doing. Hence you get more choice, and with more choice you can tailor to your personal taste. If that makes you faster, or more comfortable, then you outperform a scenario where you don't get to choose and tailor.

Most cars with power steering should output steering rack forces that the AF can easily capture and let you tune to your hearts content. While with the OSW or Bodnar, you get what you get. Thus with the AF, you can achieve the same, or at least very close feeling, and change it to suit your taste.

For forces over what the AF can capture, you can easily compress those with the AF and still get the information and all of the detail, but the feeling of torque range will certainly not be the same as the more powerful wheel.

The latest torque related improvements in the AF (force boost) aim from a technical aspect to boost forces past clipping (13Nm) up to 20%. I personally did not notice this as a major or even obviously noticeable difference. Others are reporting the opposite and really like it. I like it too, but I can't say that its close, or even closer to the torque ranges of the more powerful motors when steering rack torques start to exceed what the AF can map to in a 1:1 fashion.

Perhaps to help you in your shopping, ask yourself this:

Is the ability to tune and dial the FFB more important to you within a 13Nm range than being able to feel even wider sensation of forces? Remember, with all wheels you will get the same information, except the stronger motor will deliver it in a more expansive range.

Or you can think of it as following:

The AF is a very technically advanced wheel and can really cater to anyone who is serious about competing and winning because of the advantages the software tuning provides. Game specific plugins, telemetry feedback, etc... Key here is potential advantage, not necessarily complete immersion and realism.

A more powerful motor will give you a wider range of feeling which can be felt in fewer cars (high downforce open wheelers without powersteering). However you have no say in customization, and if there are FFB issues, like oscillations you have to use the limited dampening tools to dial those out. Limited in comparison to the AF of course. Though, whose say is it that wider torque range is more realistic or not? You're pretty much bound to the accuracy of the simulation's FFB output, and few sims do it the right way because most of them have to cater to wheels that don't even come close to even capturing anything in a 1:1 fashion. You're probably safe with rFactor 2 and iRacing. I don't know about the others. Plus iRacing seems to exaggerate steering forces on some cars. Nobody seems to really know how accurate they are. So maybe a more powerful wheel will better reproduce something that might be wrong and you can't really change that. Maybe?

Also,

Is technical support and the advantages of a vendor product important to you? Do you trust that years of R&D, and custom components that were engineered together and paired with software tailed for them will yield a more favorable experience for you?

What about price difference?

Another one.

one of the great benefits of an open source project is that if you're not happy with something, you can just fix it yourself!! ..that's the theory at least. However, given the amount of freedom available in pairing hardware, I can only see interest in this project increase. On top of that, because it is open source and volunteer based, the total price for a DIY package should reduce, or match up to vendor pricing but with more expensive components. Whether or not that means more in terms of quality or performance, it's hard to say.

At this point, I can't say you can go wrong with either choice.

While AF's tuning abilities are nice, as I've mentioned before there are usability issues associated with it. It's little things that add to a lot. You will have to live with the SC software like it or not, and probably invest a good amount of time in tuning it and tailoring it. At the moment Berney is working on some cloud based auto-tune feature, which I hope it uses some super advanced math formulas with statistical analysis to figure out the optimal settings, and not just an average of what everyone is doing. I don't know, but the point is, he's working on improving the tuning process.

At the same time, the barebones OSW driver settings just seem to work fine without any significant investment of time to make the wheel feel just right.

So is all the tuning effort and magic software really beneficial? Will it make you faster? I don't know, but it certainly gives you the option of choice.

In my opinion, the killer feature of SC is the ability to read telemetry from a game and supply its own FFB. So if you play a game with crappy FFB, but that game outputs good telemetry, then SC can work wonders for you. The only game I've encountered where this is applicable now is Assetto Corsa. Though I haven't exactly met anyone with an OSW complaining about AC's FFB being crappy or noisy.

Again, the software offers more choice.

...

Now for my own personal speculation, because after trying to stay as objective as I can, I think I'm allowed to speculate a little bit....

I think most users will not like to tinker with settings, and if the user experience of SC is not polished, where profiles are applied automatically, etc... most people will just grow tired of having to set settings. The primary goal of a sim user is to race, not tinker with wheel settings. There is no known paradigm to date where this has been the case. No other wheel on the market has allowed users to tinker with so much settings until their heads explode just to get the wheel to feel right.

I say this because I have over 10 years of experience designing user interfaces for applications, and my personal experience in observing and watching users has been that they generally just trust a default option. If defaults need to be tailored and customized by the user, most people are just going to ignore it. This is a very common paradigm when studying UX.

If the OSW project just works out of the box, then it will be more user friendly and more people will just like it better, even if the AF can be configured to outperform it.

So, is there a perfect wheel here? I don't know, but with all of these options of DD wheels there definitely doesn't seem for anything to be serverly lacking, DIY, or non-DIY.

So buy whichever. (Plus, the more competition, the better. ).

End quote.

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There is some Mmos with Mige also with MMO software that looks good. That seem to be available for a bit less then an accuforce. At least here where we must import.

As for to many options I guess this is the same as accuforce tuning options. Make life harder to get it right first time smile. But if you just get a good servo motor a lot is won it seems make life easier afterwards. Like with audio it´s better get the gear sound right in the first place then having to try and equalize tons to solve problems in the hardware. Maybe the recordings do some things wrong but at least you don´t amplify the errors in the recordings.

Hopefully the software will improve fast with the open source setup.

I am still researching but likely it will be some kind of OSW for sure. aiming for 20 nm+ so it can drive my 362 mm rims with ease. Preferrable cheaper then an accuforce. Don´t need quick release it may also be slightly detrimental to performance as well so will save some there too. I wonder if not the hardest bit will be making a rim with a healthy amount of buttons and paddles. If you buy those from the custom shops that is a half accuforce just there lol. Maybe I can get used to use button boxes instead though would still need some static paddles setup ala T500RS but higher quality of course.

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Finally took the plunge. Ordered ollies small mige package. A bit more powerful then a Leo Bodnar I been told + the small miges low internal mass is beneficial so just followed the flow and went with that though price difference is not large.

1. MiGE 130ST-M10010 or MiGE 130ST15015 (AC servo motor)

2. Mean Well PSP-600-48 (600W switched-mode PSU)

3. SIM-ple for IONI (custom motherboard with consolidation features that minimize wiring)

4. IONI Pro (servo drive controller that plugs into a designated slot on SIM-ple for IONI)

5. Pre-assembled motor power cable (plugs into SIM-ple for IONI and MiGE servo)

6. Pre-assembled motor encoder cable (plugs into SIM-ple for IONI and MiGE servo)

7. Pre-wired Emergency Stop unit (plugs into SIM-ple for IONI)

8. Pre-wired Enable switch (plugs into SIM-ple for IONI)

9. Pre-terminated DC power cables (plug into SIM-ple for IONI and are screwed into the DC outputs of the PSU)

10. IEC Line Filter, fuse, ON/OF switch combination with cables (to be screwed into the AC inputs of the Mean Well PSU)

11. An adjustable motor mount

12. A motor shaft to steering wheel adapter

13. A 2M Mini USB cable

14. A 2M Micro USB Cable

15. Detailed instructions for assembly of the above

Need to get a mini ATX case and some paddles to go with that but there is no soldering or technical know how required easier then build a computer.

At least that is what I been told smile

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